think it was Jonas Karlsson that told me once about a kind of freeform larper situation where sitting in a closet for four hours experiencing the trauma from inside a character’s head was a desirable thing. Now, this isn’t my personal cup of tea, but I’d say it’s pretty firmly a character socket deal.

What you are talking about is the most common form of critique against the form of immersion argued by the so called Turku school of larp (which basically is the ideas of the charming and productive Finnish rpg writer Mike Pohjola). What he says is that you should always only strive after behaving exactly as your character. If the inner logic of the character demands sitting in a closet for four hours you should do so. It’s probably a badly written character, but that’s another thing, they argue. (And things like being locked in alone in a small space for two days and being severely beaten and so on has especielly been done in the Norwegian hardcore-larp scene.)

Personally I can’t understand this position, even though I see immersion as an important part. The big crowd (in the Nordic countries) of deep immersers get very upset by any physical object that is not ingame: a car in a precar setting, a tie from the wrong time period and so on. I don’t care about this. But I have realized that I always have a huge problem with any speech that is not only ingame. I think this has to do with me being very non-visual, but only living through words.

This of course also mean that I have a lot of issues wiht traditional rpg, even if I still enjoy it.

After reading the post I believe to be mostly interested in Catharsis and Kenosis.

When I play traditonal games I prefer to play in immersion ‘bursts’. Between the bursts you can min-max, plan, discuss the evolvment of the story or whatever. then you have play a scene. Often it’s better if nothing special happens in the scene, since action often is boring. I love intense breakfast chats. I also love scenes of anxiety and breakdowns, but that’s more exhausting.

Very interesting post! I don’t call myself an “immersionist”, but I definitely get a kick out of kairosis when roleplaying. Catharsis is nice, but that depends on a finished story arc, and letting the game take the time needed for the connection to build. Since I’m mostly doing one-shots, with myself as GM, I don’t usually get to experience it. Playing and finishing the Sorcerer scenario Day of Dupes with Peter Nordstrand was cathartic, and I enjoyed a sensation of sweet melancholy the following days.

To be totally honest I’m a bit scared of kenosis, and I think I consciously keep some distance to the characters I’m playing. I have friends who would say that this is what roleplaying is all about, and try to set up their games to get to that state. A friend of mine, Jonas Barkå, calls it deep immersion and says it’s something he strives to achieve. When he and Sven, another friend, plays they arrange things so the players more easily can reach it, even if they would probably rate the forms “LARP, Nordic freeform, table-top RPGs” when it comes to ease of reaching kenosis. It’s simply harder to give up yourself and take on the personality of someone else when you’re sitting in someone’s living room, even if you still can get glimpses of it. I would think those glimpses are what Jonas Barkå and Sven are after.

I know they’re interested, so I’ll point them in the direction to this post.

Happens to the best of folks some days – the quick catch and turnaround probably means you’ve got less than most.

Cheers,

~Mo

Oh! I get it. These theory terms are killing me–I don’t think it has to do with how you framed them, but I already have all this baggage as to how *I* use them that I keep switching out to my meanings rather than yours. My bad on that.

I’m not sure that we’re on the same page. Kenosis as an immersion goal isn’t seeking to be nothing at all, it’s seeking to be nothing of you and replace it with everything of your character. Interacting with other people IC wouldn’t be a problem, though interacting with other people *as you, the player* would definately be.

Rich,

*embarrassed cough*

I’ve been meaning to write that up ever since I mentioned them on my Immersion 101 post a long time ago. The closest thing that there is online is in the interview that I’ve been doing with Thomas Robertson over on his blog in question #5. I’ll be getting around to something more formal on SA as soon as I can find some time.

Essentially, sockets are the place where people plug themselves into game and give and take their focus and energy to and from.

What are “sockets”? They’re mentioned several times in the comments. Can you point me to an essay/description of how they are used in RPG theory?

Thanks,

-Rich-

Can Kenosis even be maintained in an rp game, since the challenges of interacting take you out of the space? Not that you couldn’t have a kenotic reverie to psych up for the other parts of a game, but to stay kenotic during a game sounds a little autistic or demands an amazingly passive play style.

I agree with Mo that CKK aren’t just sockets over again. However, I think that Mark may have a point in that CKK as goals will have different strengths/usabilities for those with different sockets.

For example, even though I’m not an immersivist myself, I could see me learning how to get into kairosis — as it seems quite possible to do so with a story socket. I can’t ever see my story socket working well with a kenosis socket because it lacks the exteriror audience/ironic stance that I need in order to get at story.

So while they aren’t just sockets over again, I think that they definatly have something to say about how the two work together — not every goal will work with every technique qill work with every socket, and so forth.

Thomas,

I’m not a big immersive in any of these modes. When I do get my “flow” on (which I think is different than what Mo does, and I’ll talk about that when I talk about what it looks like when she immerses) I do a fairly kairosis type thing, and I do often move in and out of flow durring the first part of a game (where much of the setup and heavy lifting happens) and then stay in flow the whole way through – even when moving IC/OOC – once things hit a high pitch.

I don’t think I agree, though it may be that some sockets naturally stick or drop from any of them. The biggest flag about it is that I think many a Kenotic Immersive would absolutely say that they are immersing in character and not in setting. I think it was Jonas Karlsson that told me once about a kind of freeform larper situation where sitting in a closet for four hours experiencing the trauma from inside a character’s head was a desirable thing. Now, this isn’t my personal cup of tea, but I’d say it’s pretty firmly a character socket deal.

When I think about myself in relation to the kairotic goal, my emphasis is still pretty firmly on character socket (or at least it has up until this point). It has been on the character and the right moment felt inside the character and the psychological and moral transitioning of the character in response to the right moment. A 1story socket person might place the emphasis on the moral implication of the story and see the character as little more than marionette on the puppet stage.

Besides, when I’m talking about CKK, I’m talking goals, whereas when I’m talking about sockets I’m talking about the means to establish resonance – one of the things you would need to acheive whatever the roleplaying goal is. Clear as mud?

Whereas, Brand with a 1story/2system socket, would have a better chance of staying immersed right through.

So yeah, because there is mechanical manipulation involved in the framing/negotiation, it would depend on how much distortion the mechanics gave.

At least that’s what I’m thinking right now.

Just to see if we’re on the same page (and I think we are, actually), would you say that a person is ‘immersing’ or is ‘immersed’ during those moments of framing or negotiation for the ‘right moment’? That is, in kairosis are people dropping in and out of ‘immersive’ states? Or does it simply not make sense to talk about ‘immersing’ at such a micro level?

Thomas