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	<title>Comments on: Soaps vs RPGs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97</link>
	<description>In which Mo explores the social pathology of roleplaying and begins to experiment with game design.</description>
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		<title>By: Brand Robins</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-865</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-865</guid>
		<description>We played the tryouts game last weekend, and are playing the first episode this weekend or next. After that, perhaps I will be ready to share something semi-publicly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We played the tryouts game last weekend, and are playing the first episode this weekend or next. After that, perhaps I will be ready to share something semi-publicly.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-858</guid>
		<description>Cool, I didn&#039;t know that - what was it about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, I didn&#8217;t know that &#8211; what was it about?</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-856</guid>
		<description>I remember seeing a few of these the first time I moved to PTBO! I liked it so much I eventually organized one myself with Lauren, Chad, John, Sabrina, Chris K. and a bunch of other folks. We did one structure and improv run before each go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember seeing a few of these the first time I moved to PTBO! I liked it so much I eventually organized one myself with Lauren, Chad, John, Sabrina, Chris K. and a bunch of other folks. We did one structure and improv run before each go.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Griffen</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Griffen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-854</guid>
		<description>Me too me too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too me too!</p>
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		<title>By: Ice Cream Emperor</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>Ice Cream Emperor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-844</guid>
		<description>P.S. I am still waiting to hear more about this So You Think You Can Dance game you so casually mentioned over at Story Games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I am still waiting to hear more about this So You Think You Can Dance game you so casually mentioned over at Story Games.</p>
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		<title>By: Ice Cream Emperor</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-843</link>
		<dc:creator>Ice Cream Emperor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-843</guid>
		<description>Yes, I think there is some balance to be found between making prep &quot;more fun&quot; (for those who do not currently find it fun) and also &quot;more useful&quot; -- for those, like me, who find it incredibly fun to the point that they are prone to spending too much time in prep, or even engaging in destructive prep-related behaviours (like pre-play of characters, etc.) because they run out of constructive things to do in that space.

For me what I like about the idea of the (for lack of better terms) &#039;casting games&#039; that Mo described is that they fill a constructive role in terms of extracting/revealing the &#039;best&#039; possibilities of the setting/situation/character space. The fact that they are also fun games in of themselves is also appealing, of course, but mostly it is appealing because I think &#039;aha now I can get all my fellow gamers to join in on this activity that I already like, and in fact already do -- without feeling like I am holding things up.&#039; And of course because I like guided, structured imaginative activities (hey no way) and I think they can produce better results in terms of actual preparation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think there is some balance to be found between making prep &#8220;more fun&#8221; (for those who do not currently find it fun) and also &#8220;more useful&#8221; &#8212; for those, like me, who find it incredibly fun to the point that they are prone to spending too much time in prep, or even engaging in destructive prep-related behaviours (like pre-play of characters, etc.) because they run out of constructive things to do in that space.</p>
<p>For me what I like about the idea of the (for lack of better terms) &#8216;casting games&#8217; that Mo described is that they fill a constructive role in terms of extracting/revealing the &#8216;best&#8217; possibilities of the setting/situation/character space. The fact that they are also fun games in of themselves is also appealing, of course, but mostly it is appealing because I think &#8216;aha now I can get all my fellow gamers to join in on this activity that I already like, and in fact already do &#8212; without feeling like I am holding things up.&#8217; And of course because I like guided, structured imaginative activities (hey no way) and I think they can produce better results in terms of actual preparation.</p>
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		<title>By: Brand Robins</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-842</guid>
		<description>D, 

Interestingly, the &quot;scripting&quot; in Crime and Punishment plays with those kinds of ideas. It makes prep part of the play by making a different part of the game other than just the &quot;acting the fiction&quot; part. Of course, it does it in a very story, rather than character, focused way. 

But yea -- I&#039;m very interested in ways of making Prep a form of group play, rather than lonely fun or just group prep. If prep can be made into a fun activity of its own, a subgame of the game, then so much wow is to be had....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D, </p>
<p>Interestingly, the &#8220;scripting&#8221; in Crime and Punishment plays with those kinds of ideas. It makes prep part of the play by making a different part of the game other than just the &#8220;acting the fiction&#8221; part. Of course, it does it in a very story, rather than character, focused way. </p>
<p>But yea &#8212; I&#8217;m very interested in ways of making Prep a form of group play, rather than lonely fun or just group prep. If prep can be made into a fun activity of its own, a subgame of the game, then so much wow is to be had&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ice Cream Emperor</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>Ice Cream Emperor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-841</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;To prepare for the soaps, well before you’d hit stage, we’d have a couple of rehearsals that fleshed out the idea of the soap, the themes, the setting, the basic locations, the kinds of characters that would be needed. We’d play handfuls of characters in endless freeze games, and then pull characters we really liked, or were particularly effective (funny, scary, poignant, melodramatic, etc) out and make a cast of them, sometimes creating new characters to fill in the gaps.&lt;/i&gt;

This is really lovely, I wish more games did something like this -- and the other stuff you mentioned, really, but I was thinking about something very much like this the other day as my group did our prep session for a Sorcerer game. As usual I had any number of character concepts floating around in my head and it was frustrating having to choose between them without really being able to do any &#039;test driving&#039; at all (outside of my head.) I love the idea of a low-pressure environment (obviously there is still a pressure to perform the scene well, in accordance with the exercise, but) to drill through dozens of character concepts and try out different things and see what &#039;sticks.&#039; Especially since all of that work will get incorporated into the story/game, in terms of texture &amp; overall possibility of the world. 

The balance between prep &amp; play is an interesting issue too. I can happily spend multiple sessions &#039;prepping&#039; certain kinds of play (Sorcerer, Shock:, any focused WoD game, etc.) but I know a lot of other people find this frustrating. It would certainly be more fun if the prep involved more planned activities, or games-in-themselves -- but the focus these days seems to be very low-prep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>To prepare for the soaps, well before you’d hit stage, we’d have a couple of rehearsals that fleshed out the idea of the soap, the themes, the setting, the basic locations, the kinds of characters that would be needed. We’d play handfuls of characters in endless freeze games, and then pull characters we really liked, or were particularly effective (funny, scary, poignant, melodramatic, etc) out and make a cast of them, sometimes creating new characters to fill in the gaps.</i></p>
<p>This is really lovely, I wish more games did something like this &#8212; and the other stuff you mentioned, really, but I was thinking about something very much like this the other day as my group did our prep session for a Sorcerer game. As usual I had any number of character concepts floating around in my head and it was frustrating having to choose between them without really being able to do any &#8216;test driving&#8217; at all (outside of my head.) I love the idea of a low-pressure environment (obviously there is still a pressure to perform the scene well, in accordance with the exercise, but) to drill through dozens of character concepts and try out different things and see what &#8216;sticks.&#8217; Especially since all of that work will get incorporated into the story/game, in terms of texture &amp; overall possibility of the world. </p>
<p>The balance between prep &amp; play is an interesting issue too. I can happily spend multiple sessions &#8216;prepping&#8217; certain kinds of play (Sorcerer, Shock:, any focused WoD game, etc.) but I know a lot of other people find this frustrating. It would certainly be more fun if the prep involved more planned activities, or games-in-themselves &#8212; but the focus these days seems to be very low-prep.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Walton</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-838</guid>
		<description>Found it: &lt;a href=&quot;http://oberwiki.net/Semi-improv&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Semi-Improv at Oberlin College&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found it: <a href="http://oberwiki.net/Semi-improv" rel="nofollow">Semi-Improv at Oberlin College</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Walton</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-837</guid>
		<description>Ha, my Google-Fu is mighty!

Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://oberwiki.net/Holy_Virgin_High&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holy Virgin High&lt;/a&gt;, the soap I remember from when I was there, and here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://oberwiki.net/Semi-improv&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a wiki page listing all the soaps that have run at Oberlin&lt;/a&gt;.  Apparently this is a vibrant tradition of semi-improv.  I wonder where it began?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, my Google-Fu is mighty!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s <a href="http://oberwiki.net/Holy_Virgin_High" rel="nofollow">Holy Virgin High</a>, the soap I remember from when I was there, and here&#8217;s <a href="http://oberwiki.net/Semi-improv" rel="nofollow">a wiki page listing all the soaps that have run at Oberlin</a>.  Apparently this is a vibrant tradition of semi-improv.  I wonder where it began?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Walton</title>
		<link>http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://games.spaceanddeath.com/sin_aesthetics/97#comment-836</guid>
		<description>One of these ran at Oberlin College while I was there.  It was ongoing and they did a new season every year.  It was in year 6 or something by the time I heard of it.  Oberlin&#039;s was set in this Catholic school but some characters had died and were in hell or heaven and they had scenes there and stuff.  It was like a daytime soap + Whedon with a structure somewhere between sketch and improv (which, like you mention, has a real-time performance element that a lot of roleplaying lacks).  And there was a audience of students that attended fairly religiously.  I wish I could remember what it was called.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of these ran at Oberlin College while I was there.  It was ongoing and they did a new season every year.  It was in year 6 or something by the time I heard of it.  Oberlin&#8217;s was set in this Catholic school but some characters had died and were in hell or heaven and they had scenes there and stuff.  It was like a daytime soap + Whedon with a structure somewhere between sketch and improv (which, like you mention, has a real-time performance element that a lot of roleplaying lacks).  And there was a audience of students that attended fairly religiously.  I wish I could remember what it was called.</p>
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